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so you just won the conclave. what are you going to do next? i'm going to say a hail mary. >> history has been made of the vatican, first latin american, first jesuit, first guy with one lung that we know of. >> in the guest spot today, weekday at bernie. the fire brand senator is here. he has two lungs. >> i'm toure. the people versus jodi arias is still going on. she's finally off the stand. >> that we know of. >> so what happens -- >> all that plus i'm asking with both my lungs, is it time to destigmatize racism? yeah, we're going there. this is "the cycle," afterall.

it is now 8:00 at the time vatican and pope francis preparing for a packed first week as pope. he accept that his first full day as pope asle would expect, praying. he even slipped out of the vatican to pray at one of rome's great basilicas. he will meet with members of the press saturday. sunday there is a chance he'll say mass at st. peter's and then deliver the traditional blessing from the balcony. the biggest event is tuesday. that will be the installation mass. a huge event in fact. vice president biden will lead the u.s. delegation. pope frangs sis expected to meet with his predecessor. the two have already spoken by phone. pope francis is the church's first priest from latin america. he is jesuit. the largest order of the catholic church, known for its dedication to education, intellectual research and the poor. francis lived relatively humbly in buenos aires despite his position as archbishop. he gave up the traditional palace and chauffeured limo opting instead for a city

apartment. he cooked his own meals, all very common of jesuits. he would often visit the slum believing social outreach is the core of the church. even yesterday areplied the pomp and prayer, he turned down the official papal car and instead, joined the other cardinals on a bus. later at dinner, he reportedly told the plenty who elected him, may god forgive you for what you have done. msnbc's chris janicing is in vatican city. we heard mass applause from the one hundred,000 faithful gathered there yesterday. especially for a plan such as this who has lived his life so simply. >> reporter: yeah, think about it this way. as you describe it. this is a man who lives in a simple apartment with another elderly priest. he cooks his own meals. he rides the bus and he wakes up and he is the head of 1.2 billion catholics. in one of the most beautiful places in the world. you can see it behind me. the basilica. we heard today that after he went back to the little hotel

where they all stayed last night, all of the cardinals, and he took his own luggage and moved over to the papal apartments. the whole staff had been there since 7:00 in the morning. and i was over at the vatican talking to some of the folks there. and they said, he sent them all home. they had been there to get everything cleaned up, make sure it was perfectly dusted. and he said just go home and one person stayed behind. this is a man who not only preaches about social justice and talks about how important it is to work with the poor, and to help the poor, but he lives his life that way. so i think that although a lot of american catholics in particular were going to be disappointed, frankly with any of the 115 cardinals on the social issues that are often talked about in the u.s. catholic church. thing like birth control and gay marriage and celibate priests. those things are not going to change them weren't going to change whoever was elected pope. but this is a man who has lived his life really fighting for social justice. he has been in the slums of

buenos aires. we were talking about his cardinal here who had said when he went on a tour, when he took them on a tour, he didn't show him all the beautiful sights. he wanted to show him where the poor lived. this is someone who came in second the last time. and apparently, looked at this beautiful michelangelo paining in the sistine chapel. the look on his face said he didn't want the job. his sister was interviewed last night. and she said, he didn't want to be pope. he is a very humble man. he is a very simple man. he loves his life but it is about to change dramatically as you can see. he already has a very busy schedule in just the coming days. back to you. >> thanks for all your insight over the past week. have a safe flight back. >> as we've that, francis is the first pope from latin america. today faithful in his home town of buenos aires, argentina, are

holding mass and celebrating. miguel is there. >> reporter: a sense of normalcy has return to the cathedral behind me where the pope was the archbishop for more than a decade. there were celebrations running well into the night last flight and even into the early morning hours of today. hundreds out here gathered on the streets. they were celebrating and honking their horns. some even crying in the streets. we were five miles from this location in an area known as the slum of buenos aires. we met many people who said the pope was a man of the streets. he ate with them, cooked for them and held daily masses in their own neighborhoods. then they could not have been any happier, any prouder that a pope, that pope would now represent this region. we should point out that catholicism is a huge part of the way folks live their daily lives here. four out of every catholics live here in latin america. there was celebration not just

here in arch arch but also in brazil and in the united states. we saw celebrations overnight in miami and los angeles and also, in denver. many saying they were thrilled to see a pope of latin american descent represent this region. now here in argentina, many are now looking back to rome wondering when the pope will make his first visit back here in latin america. >> thank you for that. like pope francis, our next guest is also a jesuit priest. father james martin. the author of the best selling book the jesuit guide to almost everything. i have to start by saying forgive me father, i have sinned. i guess that's a different conversation. i have to start by asking but the jesuit connection. this is the first ever jesuit pope. the vow of poverty they take, how seriously francis has taken this in his life.

how do you think from a practical standpoint this will affect his papacy, the focus of the work that he does as pope. how significant do you think the fact that he is a jesuit will be? >> i think it is enormously significant. you've already seen how humble he is, how simply he lives and i think simple lifestyle is a hallmark. from our earliest days in training, we spend time with the poor, among the poor and we advocate for the poor. i think you will see a pope of the poor and that's indicated by the choice of his name, father francis. >> i wanted to read a quote and get to you weigh in on it. he said, his age would suggest a kind of care taker pope but his name, evoking not only francis of assisi but the great jesuit francis xavier as well, suggests a mix of humility and purifying

zeal. what is the significance of the name. >>? there was some bandying about. is it the francis can? the vatican that it is st. francis of assisi. because that name is over well known among catholics, it is a real sign he intends to concentrate on the poor and call to us work with the poor and call to us live simply as well. so i think they say the biggest decision of the first pope is his name. he made a big decision. >> archbishop jose gomez of los angeles has talked extensively about the important role that hispanic catholics have played in the founding of the country and in playing witness to american spirituality. and he has called for a resurgence. do you think that pope francis will galvanize hispanic catholics here in this country for whom maybe some of their faiths may be waning? >> i think he has. there's nothing to compare with a pope who speaks your language and speaks it fluently. i think something like 40% to 50% of american catholics are now hispanic. you look at someone like

archbishop gomez who is the arch bishop of the largest catholic diocese and he is an hispanic person. i think the fact that you have a pope who can come over here and speak and preach and even joke around in spanish will be a huge shot in the arm. not only for the hispanic catholics here but in latin america. >> what do you think are the implications? >> it is huge. it has shifted. it is a siphon recognition. and i think it also reminds people in places like africa, latin america, india, the church is not just european or roman. far from it. it is universal. so it is a terrific sign. >> father james martin, thank you so much. there is a lot more to talk about including how the new pope could affect the church's stand on abortion or gay marriage, or not. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles

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with a new pope there's a lot to talk about in the future of the church. he is the pope of firsts. the first from the americas, the first jesuit, the first named francis. will he really change anything? well, let's spin on it. my take, guys, and i wrote about this today, for the blaze, is that his election signals as father martin indicated, sort of an enduring influence of latinos on the church. this is a moment. a shift. as father said, toward the southern hemisphere. and i think what it could do for

hispanic catholics here in america is inject this deeply get personalized sense of pride in their faithful and it could renew a sense of vigor in their own catholicism. and especially for a people that oftentimes feels like they are on the outside. both in their country and in their church, this feels very sort of inclusive. like we are being recognized. we are, we feel special. and i think that could have really interesting effects. if you look at the demographics of hispanic catholics, new research is finding that as they a simulate more into american culture, they become less staunk on social issues. they become more liberal, religiously speaking. they become less pro-life, for

example. and i think pope francis will have a really interesting effect on that of it will be interesting to watch whether, because he is so staunchly conservative on social issues, like abortion and gay marriage, will he pull those hispanic catholics toward his center of gravity. be a tuning fork for that group and be back toward traditional orthodoxy, or will he sound increasingly anachronistic for the people moving away and to the left and create a bigger chasm. i think that would be really, really interesting to watch. >> i think that it is a bit of a red herring to talk about how staunchly conservative francis on social issues because every single poem for the next 1,500 years will be staunchly conservative. it come with the job at this point. i'm interest in the politics. i think that the rise of the latino vote, so many being catholic. i'm interested in how this will affect the politics.

it has been the dream to facilitate catholics. the middle of the last decade they talk about latinos, them part of it, too. we'll do immigration reform. that didn't work out. we'll really appeal to catholics. this was the idea, that's how we can make latinos a big part of the republican party's future. what we saw in the 2012 election was immigration is one issue that did not help republicans with latinos. there's a lot of research out there now about the attitudes on policy questions of latino voters in this country. and they are much more liberal on economic questions, questions about the role of government, questions about taxation. about the safety net than where the republican party is. so to me, the social conservativism says every pope will do that. if you now have a pope that has a connection with the la scene over voters in the country that

is putting a new emfast miss we haven't seen from the vatican on social issues, i think it can reinforce the other shoes. >> and hispanics and catholics are two demographics that have grown. >> i'm a little awed at the continuing rise of, in global power of hispanics and latinos. not only is jorge from the pope but the richest man in the world is carlos slim. and we saw the impact the hispanic community is having on the election, and the previous elections as well. it is interesting to see these people rising in global power. i want to speak a little to why i, maybe some of you guys found this. i'm not catholic. i'm not even that religious. you're atheist but fully interested in this situation. a couple things that i came up

with. the pomp and circumstance of the catholic church rivals even greater than hollywood. that sort of draws you in. the long history and tradition of this process. he is the 226th, is that right? they've had tons and tons of popes now. the global reach of the pope is interesting. just seeing people who really believe in something, the leaders and the followers. that's very exciting. >> it is. compelling. >> to that point, my husband is actually in the country of colombia right now. obviously not argentina. but i called him to see what the reaction on the street was. >> there he is. >> hey! >> he can be a little bit oblivious. what happened? then he call me back five minutes later. oh, life has come to a standstill. people are out on the streets celebrating. i just thought that's what they did in colombia on wednesdays. going back to this argument allergy it be the more socially

conservative views that pull the latinos in this direction, there is some research from a behavioral economist at duke university that may tie into this. he said basically, once people feel like they're cheating on a particular issue, then there is a rt sof slippery slope. they already feel like they're being bad so they will be increasingly bad. and i think because the church has staked out such an absolute position on things like birth control where frankly, most catholics cheat. that it makes the less, the rest of their mention on social issues less compelling and less sticky. people feel like they're already being bad there. so to that extent, i think that's why you're seeing latinos focusing more on that social justice mention. because it is an area where they feel like they're good and where they can be good. >> one thing, listening a minute ago. this idea of noncatholics being interested in this. people not that interested being

interested. jerry brown, one of the most fascinating politicians i've ever covered. a former jesuit from california. he said, i doubt the theology but i love the history. that's his relationship with the church. >> going to catholic school for some years, even as an atheist. it is cool to be around people who care that much. all the rituals and the ceremony. exciting stuff. we all want to know how you think the new pope will change the church if he can. kendall cruthers writes, at first glance he does seem to have what it takes to draw people of all faiths in, to at least think about religion as it pertains to their lives. as always, we want to hear what you think. make "the cycle" your religion. >> why not? straight ahead? it's a miracle? republicans applauded the president during day two of his fiscal field trip to capitol

hill? so what will day three bring? we've got lots of outspoken folks. bernie sanders in the guest spot next. [ phoebe ] stress sweat. it can happen any time, to anyone! [ female announcer ] stress sweat is different than ordinary sweat. it smells worse. get 4x the protection against stress sweat. introducing new secret clinical strength stress response scent. she was a picky eater. well now i'm her dietitian and last year, she wasn't eating so well. so i recommended boost complete nutritional drink to help her get the nutrition she was missing. and now she drinks it every day. well, it tastes great! [ male announcer ] boost has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones, and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. and our great taste is guaranteed or your money back. learn more at boost.com [ dietitian ] now, nothing keeps mom from doing what she loves... being my mom. missing workouts because of sports injuries.

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to politics, president obama has s just wrapping up a meeting with house democrats on capitol hill. earlier today he tried to make progress with a much tougher crowd. senate republicans. with the charm offensive in full if he can, this is turning into a game of good cop bad cop. today let's just say that house minority leader nancy pelosi assumed the bad cop role. >> it is a hoax. we've moved into the category of hoax. an exercise in contradictions, repealing the affordable care act while using the law of savings and revenues to balance their budget. >> i bet we'll see more fire

work in the guest spot. the independent senator bernie sanders is his cycle debut. we played the clip from the leader pelosi. she also though made a little news today saying that she would be open to this idea of a benefits reduction in social security. chain cpi is what it is called. part of a grand bargain. president obama has been pursuing this grand bargain. the idea of replacing the sequester. fair or not, it seems like the leaders of your party are sort of putting all these discussions on a binary track. where the decision will be either we stick with the sequester or we have the grand bargain. i guess i'm curious from your perspective, if those are your two choices, which would you prefer? >> they're not my two choices and i just came from the committee meeting. i will be returning to the budget committee meeting.

we are working on a may know budget which will protect the american people which we'll do away with a lot of the loopholes which will be a real contrast to congressman ryan's disastrous budget which will make devastating cuts for working families, low-income families, while lowering taxes for the wealthiest people at a time which wl the rich are doing phenomenally well. one out of four major corporations is paying nothing in taxes. my hope is that we can in fact develop a strong budget which is based on revenue and judicious cut cuts. >> when i see her saying she is open to chain cpi, if she, obama, republican leaders get to a deal, it will include chain cpi or something along those lines. would you as a senator, if that becomes the deal that they all work out, would you use the power of filibuster, do you feel strongly enough to stop anything

that touches entitlements? >> i don't want to speculate on a line athletic cal. the so called chain cpi would mean if you're 65 years of old, by the time you're 75, you'll get $650 less than you would have gotten. by the time you're 85, $1,000 a year less. if you're a senior citizen in the state of vermont trying to live on $15,000 a year, that's a devastating cut. let me say as chairman of the senate veteran committee, this will mean devastating cuts for disabled veterans fork widows who lost their husbands in iraq and afghanistan. it is not my view that the american people want to balance the budget on the backs of disabled vets. i'm going to fight this. we have on our side, we have every veterans organization in this circus every senior organization in this country, the national organization for women and disability groups as well. people want to do deficit reduction but you have to do it

in a way that's fair. not on the backs of the vulnerable. >> i agree with that. it is an honor to have you on the show. this is not just about an economic conversation. it is about a values conversation. it is about who we are as a society. if we have a civilized society that doesn't require collective commitment. that doesn't have a safety net for those who are the least fortune, we're not a society. we're just a collective of several million people who just river here together. don't we have to live together and have a collective commit many to have a true civilization? >> that's right. the question is whether or not we are a nation. as cheryl of the veterans committee, i talk to people who went to iraq and afghanistan who came back without any legs. that's a sacrifice. and then when i hear that you have some of the largest financial institutions in this country, bank of america and others who have hundreds in

subsidiaries in the islands. well, you have to cut social security and nutrition even though 22% of our kids are living in poverty. are we a nation or are we moving in fact to an old garky form of society where a handful of people of it all. middle class and poverty stays at a very high level. >> with a do you say to those who call both the paul ryan house republican budget and the democratic budget political documents that have no chance of passing? that they're not serious? is that a fair comparison to make between these two budgets? >> i wouldn't phrase it that way. i mean, what we are seeing right now is a major ideological. what ryan is about is saying,

that we are not going to raise a nickel more in revenue. in fact, we're going to lower tax breaks for the wealthiest people in the country and we are going to make devastating cuts for working families already suffering in the midst of a recession. what we are trying to do, and i would go farther than patty murray. to say we have 14% of our people who are unemployed. if you look at unemployment in a real way. we've got to create jobs. we're putting $100 billion into rebuilding our infrastructure. create jobs. deal with youth unemployment. and second of all, it is insane to simply talk about cut, cut, cut, when you got the wealthiest people and large corporations doing phenomenally well and paying lower effective tax rates than they should. the point that you made earlier about whether we are a nation. we send kids off to iraq, lose their legs, they defend our country, and you've got large

corporations not paying a nickel in taxes. that's not a nation. that's not what shared sack, sacrifice is about. >> president obama took a real hit during the sequester. he only has a 4-point lead over the republicans. compared to the 18-point lead in december. now he is letting congress, you folks duke out the budget. we don't know when he'll present his own budget. you have white house advisers saying these meetings have a joke and a waste of time. would you have liked to have seen more leadership from the president on these budgetary issues? >> who knows why somebody's poll ratings go down. i don't. what the american people want is not just leadership in an abstract way. what they want is leadership that will fight for working

families in the middle class who are being really devastated as a result of this recession. we don't talk about it enough. but median family income has plummeted. real unemployment, over 14%. millions of people are working for lower wages than they used to. my feeling is that the president will do very well politically when he begins to stand up and say, you know what? i am going to take on wall street. and i am going to take on corporate america and all those institutions that think they don't have to pay any taxes. and we are going to raise the preliminary wage to a living wage. and we are going to rebuild our infrastructure and put millions of people back to work. >> so are you satisfied with the job that he's done on those issues so far? >> no. obviously, he is much, much preferable to a mitt romney and i strongly supported him. he ran a campaign for the middle class. you tell me. and this is where i think the american people get confused and lose confidence in him. how do you tell me you're running for the middle class,

i'm defending the middle class, the theme of the campaign. by the way, i'm going on cut social security and disabled veterans' benefits. people don't think that makes a whole lot of sense. >> all right. senator bernie sanders. thank you for joining us. coming up, there's fascinating research to tell you about on how our bodies physically react to racial differences. if just the mention of it gives you stress, you're not alone. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios

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very logical thinker. (laughs) i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle. (screams) i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. i wanted to ask you, millions of people have done this. my colleagues took it and they were getting questions about race. i have questions, do you associate this with hair or no hair? it tell me the conclusion after i took this, your data suggests

no automatic identification with vehicle compared to furniture. i assume that's a code that says you're not a racist, congratulations. what did i get? what happened to me? >> what you got is that you headed off to the site for experts rather than the site for novices. >> in other words, steve took the wrong test. you may remember a few weeks ago when we had harvard professor on to talk about her implicit bias test. her research shows that like it or not, we are a you will a little bit biased. once you establish that, the next step is to use that bias to help push into the anxiety and emotion that surrounds these. that's the mission of the woman joining us now. the executive director of the american values institute. thanks so much for joining us. >> thanks for having me. >> let's start there. if we are all in fact a little bit biased, do we need to be more comfortable admitting that and about it?

>> well, i think that's the biggest challenge that we have will we all know what happens, when we have conversations around race, and it kind of just drops in the conversation and our defense mechanisms automatically get triggered. i think the challenge around that is that we cannot have any meaningful policy discussions about jobs, about education, about just about who our children's friends are if we cannot address a meaningful conversation around race and the emotion that it brings with it. >> i was struck by the coach from the new york time a week ago wrote about how we think of racism. he said in modern america, we believe racism to be the property of the uniquely villainous and morally deformed, the ideology of trolls, gorgons and orcs. people can be good law-abiding citizens and just happen to be that they have attitudes embedded somewhere that basically are racist.

but they don't understand them them don't acknowledge them or recognize them. they think the racists are some terrible people over there. what's your experience with that? do you find that to be true? >> absolutely. when you look at poll after poll, upwards of 85% of americans really truly do believe in egalitarian ideals. and i wouldn't question that. and i think that our conscious selves are very fair-minded. you look at that across a variety of issue areas. whether we talk about race, sexuality or gender. the challenge is that we hold these unconscious biases. we've internalized the stereo types. and i think race tends to happen in a structural and an historical narrative. the reality is that race is an emotion, too. it triggers these defense mechanisms and that's what we need to address. >> alexis, our young men have a lot to navigate as they move from tweens into teenagers. they start to get saddled with

that stereo type of the criminal back man. to be looked at as predators, people to be feared. let's look at a little clip from a documentary that your group is associated with. >> keep asking me. i always say in the middle burk they keep saying, are you rich? are you poor? are you rich? are you poor? >> i think for the first time since he's been there, this black and white thing has become an issue. >> anything black now seems to have a negative tone. >> for a while, he came back. when he first got there, he wanted his name changed. >> well, i sometimes get made fun of. because they said you talk like a white boy and stuff at my basketball team. >> people seem to be afraid of me. and so what they do is they back off and they don't want to mess.

because they think i might hurt them. >> he said to be feared is your most prized possession as a king. >> that works well for kings but not for black boys walking through streets every day. it is heart breaking to hear these boys who are going to dalton talk about, they have teachers who are afraid of them. probably for no reason. this is a problem that our boys are dealing with. we can tell them, you know, do things to not make yourself look so much like whatever that will make other people afraid. the larger world is looking at them as criminals even when they do nothing. how do we deal with these ill police it biases that are shaping our boys? >> i think the american promise film is actually a really important documentary. particularly to address that question. we tend to associate race and particularly race and gender, black men, with criminality. we think of it as a class issue. the reality is when we looking people up to mris and

respiratory monitors and we flash images of young black plenty in front of them, you can trace the anxiety growing in our body. there's a part of your brain that increases and that red wing sisters fearful your heart rate increases. that means that when the image of a black man coming down the street, regardless of how he is dressed, pops into our head, we're automatically creating a narrative and a stereo type around them. so we have to challenge our, essentially we have to challenge our media. we have to challenge our visual cult tower give us different counter stereo types to get our brain to process race differently. >> well. yeah. you talk about the stress that is created when race is discussed and sort of anxiety around those conversations of we don't often know how to talk about it. you have people who disengage. don't want to ever bring it up. that's not helpful for a national dialogue. you have others trying to intimidate people. sort of invoke it in sort of a

scary way. so what are some tips? some advice for how to have a meaningful conversation about race? >> well, one of the things we're trying to do there our new website, perception.org is create that conversation where we acknowledge both sides of the conversation. i think typically what happens is that if you are a white american, you enter a conversation around race. you're literally your executive brain sometimes will shut down. your defense mechanism kicks in. and you are so worried about confirming the fact that you understand that you hold these biases deep down. for many people of coloring entering this conversation, we're likewise bringing a defense mechanism. we're worried that our situation is going to get invalidated. i think it starts in naming the anxiety. it is like race therapy in some ways. >> to own up to it.

will ha thank you. up next, the twisted story our executive producer and millions of you apparently can't stop watching. the jodi arias trial. when did you know that grandma was the one? when her sister dumped me. oh dad, you remember my friend alex? yeah. the one that had the work done... [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food.

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for under $200 a month. some people will do anything to help eliminate litter box odor. ♪ discover tidy cats pure nature. clumping litter with natural cedar, pine, and corn. the jodi arias televised murder trial continues this afternoon in phoenix with her defense team calling additional

witnesses. jodi won't be on the stand herself but she spent 18 days there over nearly six weeks. an extraordinary amount of time. she faces the death penalty for killing her off again, on again boyfriend. travis alexander in 2008 shelf change her story three times. first she claimed she wasn't there. then she said two intruders killed him. then she said it was self-defense. this picture has bloody pictures, lots of talk about sex, and the two looks of jodi then and now on the stand. also a jury that gets to ask witness questions, all of which combines to make this the year's most watched trial. >> allegedly. >> let's bring in defense attorney to break this down. the length of time that jodi spent on the stand is extraordinary, at least to me. i've never heard of anything like that. as a criminal defense attorney, how do you read that? do you read it saying her team is saying, we have very little to no chance, given the evidence

that we have, that the prosecution will present. if we put her up there for a while and maybe make people like her and understand her, they'll have less of an opportunity maybe to want to convict her? >> i don't think it is about conviction, ultimately. i think what these defense lawyers are attempting to do is to save her life. first of all, your comment about it being one of the longest, if not the longest time a defendant has been on the witness stand is really a wise comment indeed. i had covered these cases for court tv and trutv. i have never heard of a witness, let alone a defendant on the stand for 18 days. and when you're looking to save her life, what the defense wants to do is they want to make her human. you may think she did it. you may decide to convict her, jurors, but you may not want to ultimately put her to death. that's their goal. >> and how have they done in that goal in your opinion? how has the defense done?

how has the prosecution done? do you think that her life will be saved? >> i don't know if i can say her life different versions of what happened to her boyfriend, travis. and when you end up with a self-defense claim, the defense lawyers are stuck with this claim. and the only way to get an instruction for the jury on the issue of self-defense was to put her on the witness stand. personally, myself, i might have taken another tact and simply decided i'd forego the self-defense instruction, let them convict her, argue for the issue of life without her being thought of, potentially, as a liar for 18 days. >> you know, rikki, there are a lot of, you know, well-documented, bizarre and grisly and sensational aspects to this case. but at the same time, it strikes me there are 10,000 to 15,000 murders a year in the united

states and a lot of those murders also have bizarre and grisly and sensational aspects to them. in some cases, i think there's probably more of a mystery than maybe in this one about what actually happened. this -- i'm kind of curious when trials like this get the kind of news this one's getting, what is it do you think about this that's riveted people in a way that none of these other murders, murder case we have every year, do? >> well, i think one of the things you were discussing earlier in your program was about the issue of race. and i do think when we have a very attractive caucasian female and we have a lot of video, you need that combination. that what we do is we find our society becomes riveted to a case. the perfect example is the scott peterson case. we see laci peterson as that beautiful woman who smiled. little jonbenet ramsey. that beautiful blond child. and we, frankly, do not see this kind of interest when we have

people of color. and i think that that is a shame. in addition, we have to also look at our interests as a society to hear the kind of salacious detail that this case has had which is way over the top for daytime tv. >> rikki, i've got to say, i'm one of the few people apparently who's not been captivated by this. >> what? >> sorry. how much longer can i expect this to be part of the news cycle? how much longer do you think this trial is going to go? >> oh, this one isn't over until it's over. we are just starting the expert witnesses in this case. there are two of them. they are dealing with her psyche. we're going to find out if she has post traumatic stress disorder, of course, she claimed she is a victim of abuse and, therefore, there is a reason both for her self-defense claim as well as for her memory fog. that's going to go on for days. and then the government gets to rebut these witnesses with experts of their own, and, of

course, any other witnesses they would like to call. so although you why nmay not be of this viewing public that is glued to watching this trial, i guarantee you there may be friends of yours going to be asking you questions for days if not weeks to come. >> wow, great. >> let me tell you stinomething. you called my statements wise, you get to come back. >> i am a wise woman. >> thank you very much. up next, deal or no deal? hosted by krystal ball. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice.

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in president obama's meet with house republicans yesterday, they took the rare opportunity to ask hard questions like, why don't you balance the budget just like families do? does your family print money and have nuclear weapons? and what about those white house tours? really? that's your biggest concern over sequestration? one reported exchange, though, did stand out. ways & means chairman dave camp asked the president why they couldn't just go ahead and pass cpi benefit cuts to social security and means testing for medicare since the president has said he would be willing to accept both of these changes? i'm going to give chairman camp the benefit of the doubt and assume he was being intentionally dense. the president claimed these were items offered as part of a negotiation and republicans would also have to give up something in order to grab their social safety net cut goodies. in other words, he explained what has been the operating framework for a potential grand bargair,